I would like to ask help from fellow sailors on clarifying some rules questions which involves Rule 18.
Situation:
1. Red elected to go to the port layline of the windward mark which is to be left to port.
2. Green (Starboard tack) elected to go to the Starboard layline.
3. Red already was at the port layline and entered the 2 length zone ahead of Green on port tack.
4. But Green was fast coming in and Calls "Starboard".
5. Red says, No I am rounding the mark and I am inside boat you have to give me room to tack to round the mark. (Rule 18)
6. Green Luffs up to avoid Red but Protests red. No contact and both rounded without further incident.
A drawing can be found in this URL:
http://rcsailing.cjb.net/markrounding.gif
My questions:
1. Am I right in thinking that Rule 18 does not apply in this case because of Rule 18.1b which covers boats in opposite tack?
2. Is Red correct in thinking that even if he is in port tack, because he is inside boat and about to round the mark by tacking, that he has to be given room by the outside boat to be able to tack and round?
3. Doesn't Rule 13 apply in this situation?
4. Does Rule 18.3 apply in this situation?
Thanks very much in advance for your comments.
TTFN
Arvin
RACING RULES Interpretation
Moderators: Pedro Egea, jeffbyerley
Rule 18.1 b) says rule 18 does not apply between boats on opposite tacks on a beat to windward. Rule 10 applies.
If Red tacks, rule 13 applies while she is tacking. After the tack rule 18.3 applies.
Rule 10 and 13 requires Red to keep clear. Rule 18.3 requires not to cause Green to luff above close-hauled.
If Green is on the layline the only real option for Red is to pass behind Green, and any other boats immediately behind her. If Green is so close that this is impossible Red may have to crash-tack short of the mark.
Basically Red is in a tactically hopeless situation. She has absolutely no rights vs Green.
If Red tacks, rule 13 applies while she is tacking. After the tack rule 18.3 applies.
Rule 10 and 13 requires Red to keep clear. Rule 18.3 requires not to cause Green to luff above close-hauled.
If Green is on the layline the only real option for Red is to pass behind Green, and any other boats immediately behind her. If Green is so close that this is impossible Red may have to crash-tack short of the mark.
Basically Red is in a tactically hopeless situation. She has absolutely no rights vs Green.
RRS Rule 18
Thanks Even for your reply.
However unfortunately skipper of the Red boat insists that by quoting Rule 18 he should have right of way as follows:
1. He is inside boat (even if on port tack)
2. He is therefore entitled to "room to tack" because he is "rounding or passing the mark"
He then goes to argue that:
I do agree with Even's interpretation but I am just giving you the arguements why RED did what he did and see if he is correct.
The way I see it, no matter what, during a race with RRS in effect Starboard tack always has right of way against Port tack no matter what the situation is, except only when proper course and altering course applies. Am I correct?
TTFN
Arvin
However unfortunately skipper of the Red boat insists that by quoting Rule 18 he should have right of way as follows:
He insists that:18 ROUNDING AND PASSING MARKS AND OBSTRUCTIONS
In rule 18, room is room for an inside boat to round or pass between an outsideboat and a mark or obstruction, including room to tack or gybe when either is a normal part of the manoeuvre.
1. He is inside boat (even if on port tack)
2. He is therefore entitled to "room to tack" because he is "rounding or passing the mark"
He then goes to argue that:
Does not apply because he is already "rounding or passing" the mark and not beating to windward anymore.Rule 18(B) between boats on opposite tacks, either on a beat to windward or when the proper course for one or both of them to round or pass the mark or obstruction is to tack.
I do agree with Even's interpretation but I am just giving you the arguements why RED did what he did and see if he is correct.
The way I see it, no matter what, during a race with RRS in effect Starboard tack always has right of way against Port tack no matter what the situation is, except only when proper course and altering course applies. Am I correct?
TTFN
Arvin
The current rule was designed to discourage boats from approaching marks on port. Under the old (pre 1996?) rules Red could establish an inside overlap by tacking to leeward of Green and claim room.
The fact remains that Red has to tack in order to round the mark. In my opinion that makes 18.1.b apply, because his proper course is to tack. Even if it doesn't 18.3 requires that she does not interfere with Greens rounding.
All of this is just my understanding of the rules. You should protest Red to get the official answer. If you already have, and disagree with your local jury, you can appeal the decision to your national sailing association.
The fact remains that Red has to tack in order to round the mark. In my opinion that makes 18.1.b apply, because his proper course is to tack. Even if it doesn't 18.3 requires that she does not interfere with Greens rounding.
All of this is just my understanding of the rules. You should protest Red to get the official answer. If you already have, and disagree with your local jury, you can appeal the decision to your national sailing association.
Even,
I totally agree with you. Actually the problem is that this happened with the team I am a member of when I wasn't racing that day (this happened on keel boat racing by the way). "Red" apparently does this all the time and thinks that he is in the right. Unfortunately my team didn't protest because they didn't know which rules applied. Yes it would have been nice if there was an official protest. Maybe next time we will assert our rights and protest Red if we get in the same situation again
TTFN
Arvin
I totally agree with you. Actually the problem is that this happened with the team I am a member of when I wasn't racing that day (this happened on keel boat racing by the way). "Red" apparently does this all the time and thinks that he is in the right. Unfortunately my team didn't protest because they didn't know which rules applied. Yes it would have been nice if there was an official protest. Maybe next time we will assert our rights and protest Red if we get in the same situation again
TTFN
Arvin
You don't need to know the rules to file a protest (but it may help).
You only have to describe the situation. It's the jurys job to decide which (if any) rule has been broken.
You asked before whether a boat on starboard ever would have to give way to a boat on port: Rule 18 applies between boats on opposite tacks on downwind legs. If Red and Green were Lasers running by the lee and approaching the bottom mark, the inside boat, Red, on port tack, and Green on starboard. Red will be entitled to room, including the room to gybe around the mark
You only have to describe the situation. It's the jurys job to decide which (if any) rule has been broken.
You asked before whether a boat on starboard ever would have to give way to a boat on port: Rule 18 applies between boats on opposite tacks on downwind legs. If Red and Green were Lasers running by the lee and approaching the bottom mark, the inside boat, Red, on port tack, and Green on starboard. Red will be entitled to room, including the room to gybe around the mark
Even,You asked before whether a boat on starboard ever would have to give way to a boat on port: Rule 18 applies between boats on opposite tacks on downwind legs. If Red and Green were Lasers running by the lee and approaching the bottom mark, the inside boat, Red, on port tack, and Green on starboard. Red will be entitled to room, including the room to gybe around the mark
I agree with you about protests
As for Rule 18, Wow, I didn't realise this, thanks for pointing this out. I guess that is why Rule 18.1b was specific that it only is for boats "beating or in close hauled".
I didn't know that Rule 18 applies even on boats in opposite tacks at the leeward mark! I think this is an important rule or situation to know!
Thanks!
TTFN
Arvin